Reasonable Issues

Menu of Issues Addressed So Far

Click the issue and the link will take you directly to that issue more fully addressed.

"Aren't there many good loving charitable bright and solid-in-the-word Christians who are in 501c3's, even in Babylon working in government service? Are you saying they are rejected by God in some way?"  

This is indeed one of the most difficult problems I face in laying out my case. I do know many good, kind, thoughtful individuals who are in state-churches...

 

"Are you saying we should dismiss the wonderful things God does — saving, healing, touching, changing lives — even if they are done in 501c3 incorporated entities?" 

I can't deny at all that God does amazing things for people who call on His name, where ever they are. I believe God is bigger and greater than our weaknesses or predicaments...

 

"What about the church for centuries and all the profound good it has done — all the faithful Christians through history who've graciously convinced millions to believe in Him, and done wonderfully charitable things for so many? Are you so readily disparaging them?" 

This is a terrific point, because I acknowledge that I personally know of Jesus through the industrious efforts of those so devoted to Him...

 

"How come you're the only one who knows all this? Where is everyone else?" 

I very much take this concern to heart...

 

"So what of the magnificent things government and government-sponsored organizations have done? Without them we'd have no roads, no zoning boundaries, no armies or prisons to protect us from bad people." 

First, what exact policy or activity are you speaking of? Some things are designed specifically for government to do, and Scripture tells us to offer respect and even extend proper tribute to it for those things...

 

"Looking for the perfect community here with perfect people — as if it were some utopia — makes you think you'll make a paradise here when we should be looking for it in heaven. Isn't that a bit presumptuous, if altogether impossible?"

In this site I've laid out a bit of what that perfect community is— hey, it's right there in Scripture...

 

"In order to be accredited or licensed or something making a thing legitimate and respected and reputable and subject to strict accountability, we all must enter into contracts that could easily be considered compromising our beliefs. But that's just the price of doing business!"

Sometimes contracts are perfectly fine things, simply because we are prone to forget the terms of our agreements...

 

"What about our present missionary activity? Here and abroad we must do certain things the government requires for us to get the gospel to the lost. Again, there are a number of things we must do as the price for getting the gospel to them."

Price? Didn't Christ pay the full price? If He wants people to hear and respond to His word...

 

"What you're saying here is just wrong. It's simple, what we're doing by being incorporated as a 501c3 is just no big deal."

I can't help but think that if it is indeed "no big deal," then why do so many churches and non-profit ministries insist on keeping it...

 

"To do what you ask, to get rid of all of our incorporated obligations, is just too daunting! It is too scary! No one would join together to do it! What you're asking is just too unreasonable." 

And I must then emphasize that it takes the power of the God of the universe to get us out...

 

"Aren't the real challenges of the church things like New Age ideas, marketing strategies that water down the gospel, the postmodern Emergent threat, encroaching secularism — things like that? Shouldn't we be going after them?" 

I have seen book after book after book (evangelical Christians like to read books) that say "Here's what it's really all about," and those things are real concerns...

 

"You have a page of straw-man Jesuses. Isn't this quite presumptuous? By saying who he isn't, you are still saying a lot about who you think He is!"

Good point, the observation that ruling out some characteristics of a thing goes a long way to defining the thing. My purpose is merely to bring up many of the kinds of Jesuses...

 

"How can you be so sure Protestant churches are as 'Catholicized' as you say they are? I think you'd get a challenge from them; many are pretty averse to the Catholic Church." 

A lot of their animosity stems from their insecurity about the association they still have with Catholicism...

 

"What do you have against church? You seem to speak disdainfully of it as a 'God club.' Why can't we just work hard at doing Christ's work where we are as we are? Seems like it can be very good!"

I've never said doing Christ's work was a bad thing wherever it is done.

 

"Throughout history there have been dozens of attempts to be 'pure' and 'separate' from the World. There were the Pietists and the Waldensians and the Albigensians and the Mennonites and the Anabaptists and the Plymouth Brethren — so many failed 'movements' to do exactly what you're suggesting. Isn't the extremist Christian doomed to meaningless marginalization?"

So? Really, so what? I'm sure this contention is raised to somehow discredit the idea that we should really be setting ourselves apart for God because past attempts...

 

"When you talk about not paying taxes, you sound like a crazy law-breaking tax protester. That is not becoming of a Christian. You should do as the Bible says and 'avoid any appearance of impropriety.'" 

The tax issue is indeed one of the more troubling things anyone can truly wrap their mind around...

 

"You assert that we should be unassociated with any incorporated body. But is it nearly impossible to avoid being in the employment of one and by default signed on with a W-4 contract."

I agree! It is nearly impossible! This is just a clear evidence of how wide is the road to destruction and how many people are on it...

 

"If we are completely reasonable, we must accept that we all sin sometimes, so the law is a good thing to constrain us even if it does it some of the time or in small ways like it does with 501c3 contracts. Really, no one is morally perfect."

I must say, if I do so boldly, that while this may sound like the most reasonable endorsement of an avowed World association by a Christian...

 

"Can't you give some credit to some people who are out there living out the great things of God, are happy, are loving Him and others? Are you so cynical you don't see them?"

Oh no! I very much know there are followers of Christ who are...

 

"You don't take into consideration this... something very meaningful that you're not really seeing..."  Please finish! Do let me know! Fill in the ellipses there! I'm happy to hear any fact, principle, anecdote, condition, situation...

 

"Through all this you sound like such a know-it-all. People don't like that."

Quite frankly, this objection is disingenuous because any statement is some claim to know something, including the criticism of it. How then is the speaker exempt from "know-it-all-ness"?...

 

 

 

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(I am in the process of adding a few more of these objections to this page. Again, if you have come across this site and you have an issue with what is said here, I humbly invite you to email me. Thank you.)

 

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The Grafted Church

 

 

 

A Thumbnail Sketch of the Premise of This Website

 

1. Each and every individual is someone who does or has done horrible things. Each person was made to reflect the beauty and glory of God, to do wonderful things in this world, but each person has messed that up and as such goes around wrecking his or her life and the lives of others. In other words, everyone is a sinner.

2. The only way not to be a sinner anymore is to humbly put one's soul in the hands of Jesus Christ, who is God come in the flesh and who offered His life as the substitute for our punishment because of our sin. He offers to "buy us back" with His blood, or redeem us from our sinfulness, and we may choose accept His generous gift of life.

(These first two parts of the premise are standard features of the message of Christ. Responses for someone who is not so familiar with them are offered in the Frequently Asked Questions page of this site. The following highlighted parts of the premise are aspects that many Christians question.)

3. Because many would not come to Him to find truth, grace, joy, and peace in His Kingdom, God sent the preeminent evildoer Cain out to build a city and prosecute their sinful conduct. The result is the World System, today administered by the United States Government, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Federal Reserve. All of these institutions collaborate to manage the sin of those who ask them to do so, and they do this by signing any of a number of contracts that signify such a request. (At any time, Jesus would still extend complete forgiveness of that sin and full provision of joy and peace for those who wish to make Him their Lord instead.)

4. Whenever an individual assumes undue W-4 tax liability or his organization (either business or church) incorporates, he presumes non-resident alien status or accepts government employment, and as such he puts himself in the service of the Legacy of Cain. He becomes beholden to the World and with it he endures a constant fearful existence, the agony of violent interactions with others, and the oppressive drudgery of incessantly defending himself from it all. This arrangement is perfectly reasonable for the one who chooses not to follow Christ. For those who name His Name, however, Christ asks for undivided commitment, and in return they receive all His benefits and provisions, chiefly that of being loved and having the capacity to authentically and tangibly love others.

5. The entirety of Scripture confirms that there is a profound dichotomy between those living in the Kingdom by love and those trudging through the World in fear. Again, Jesus invites every single individual to live bountifully with Him in all He has to offer. A critical issue is that many not only brashly refuse His offer, but they pretend to be His and set up grand elaborate deceptions, some of the most insidious of which involve 501c3 incorporations and all the machinations included therein.

 

 

 

This page was originally posted by David Beck at yourownjesus.net on January 4, 2007